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Draft:Swindon Health Hydro, Formerly Known as Milton Road Baths

• Draft:Swindon Health Hydro, Formerly Known as Milton Road Baths

I have updated this article to try and meet standards. One element I can't fix is the title - I would like this to be changed to 'Swindon Health Hydro, Milton Road, Swindon'.

I have been working on this article for three years now. To start off with, I got objections that I understood and reacted to. Now it just seems that someone comes in, rejects the article and there's not much I can do. Being told that it reads like an essay or that I'm using informal language hasn't helped at all.

I let Swindon Borough Council use an earlier version of the article on their website - a reviewer thought that I'd plagiarised the whole thing. I explained what had happened and they accepted my explanation but the article still didn't get accepted.

I would like to move on to writing an article about the Great Western Railway Medical Fund Society but I haven't the stomach for another marathon.

Mydaemonthirst (talk) 14:37, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

 Done in this edit Versions111 (talk • contribs) 14:54, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

If the article is published it should be at Swindon Health Hydro, currently a WP:redirect to Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths. Adding "Milton Road, Swindon" is known as WP:disambiguation and is not needed if there is only one Swindon Health Hydro on Wikipedia. TSventon (talk) 15:03, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

The Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths article is about just one element in a very large building with a complicated history. That article is part of a series of articles about the Victorian Turkish Baths movement, which is a story that deserves to stand alone. The point you are making is one made three years ago when I started on my article about the Health Hydro. The story of the Victorian Turkish Baths Movement and that of the the Health Hydro as a building deserve to each stand alone, of course with cross-references.

THERE IS NO SWINDON HEALTH HYDRO ON WIKIIPEDIA. There does seem to be an inexplicable determination to make sure there never is. An article talking about just the Turkish Baths, as part of the Victorian Turkish Baths movement, is not telling the nationally important story of the Health Hydro.

I would dearly love to move on to an article on the GWR Medical Fund Society but I need to get the Health Hydro article published first and it seems that this will never happen. Is there any court of appeal that I can approach and make my case? Mydaemonthirst (talk) 22:44, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

@Mydaemonthirst: (edit conflict) There is an existing article, Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths (to which Swindon Health Hydro redirects), that seems to overlap considerably with your draft. Instead of trying to create a new article, perhaps you could add cited information to the existing article. Deor (talk) 15:09, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

The existing article is part of a series of articles about the Victorian Turkish Baths movement. That is its focus and it talks about Turkish Baths in Swindon before they came to be housed in what is now the Health Hydro. If I put the history of the Health Hydro into that article, it would drown out its purpose.

The Health Hydro is a large complicated building with a complicated history. Two thirds of the building were for medical purposes and one third housed the the swimming baths, wash baths Turkish baths and Russian baths. It has gone through a series of changes in its management and uses. It is a remarkable building that is of national importance and deserves to have its own Wikipedia page.

I have put in too much effort to give up now. The story of the building continues and I will continue to update the article with fresh developments. I just hope that, eventually, reason will prevail and the article will be published. I will then able to move on to create an article on the GWR Medical Fund Society.

The current title of my article is a mistake for two reasons, which is why I want to change it. The whole building has never been called the 'Milton Road Baths', only the 'wet side'. And putting two names for the building into the title is likely to cause confusion. I do want 'Milton Road' in the title because many many people in Swindon still think of the Milton Road Baths when they think of the building. Thus I would like the title to be 'Swindon Health Hydro, Milton Road, Swindon'.

I am anxious to get the article published soon as the building will be reopened in January, after refurbishment.

I cannot accept that the story of the Victorian Turkish Baths Movement in the existing article should be drowned out by the whole history of the Health Hydro. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 10:28, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

"I am anxious to get the article published soon as the building will be reopened in January". Please see WP:PROMO and WP:COMMONNAME. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2025-31359-08 (talk) 14:03, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

@Mydaemonthirst: And also remember there is no WP:DEADLINE on WIkipedia.. Bazza 7 (talk) 14:22, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

Yes but this is taking years. I do not believe that the existence of an article about the Victorian Turkish Baths movement should prevent the publication of an article about a particular building in Swindon. This objection is, in one way, a first in that it is a repeat of an earlier objection that I had thought I'd dealt with. For the most part every objection is for a different reason and it's never clear whether I have succeeded in satisfying the objection. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 16:05, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

The fact that it's taking years is nobody's fault and nobody's concern. A Wikipedia article is just history. It bears absolutely no relation to a building reopening. If you want to have promotional material prepared, this is a horrible way of doing it, because it will be re-edited against your wishes and you'll have no recourse. You can set up your own website for promotion. TooManyFingers (talk) 22:00, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

@Mydaemonthirst: yes you are getting nonsense rejections in the draft process, and now nonsense comments here. However, the underlying the problem is for us to work out what this content is about and where it fits in Wikipedia. Often, someone will create a new draft/article as an isolated entity, dump it in the encyclopedia and then a mess ensues - it is not a great situation. All articles are editable, and ideally they should link to one another.

If Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths is about the baths movement, can that be clarified in that article? Then a section there could be created about a particular building, or particular entity, such as Swindon Health Hydro. If there is a heap of coverage in reliable sources, per summary style, an individual article Swindon Health Hydro (currently a redirect) will be required.

I am not proposing a lot of work. A couple of tweaks to Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths from someone who understands the subject and some adjustments to your draft. Then I imagine the draft will be accepted. Commander Keane (talk) 05:57, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

My responses on this topic are perfectly sensible and correct. If you don't like them, that's your business. You may be right about what's needed; I'm not wrong about the situation in general. I hope the article turns out the way you want, and I have nothing against that. TooManyFingers (talk) 07:19, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

NO NO NO! The Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths article is about Turkish baths. That is its purpose - to chronicle the history of Turkish baths in Swindon, as one of a series of related articles on the Victorian Turkish Baths movement. The Swindon Health Hydro article is about the building that happens to contain, among many other things, the latest iteration of Turkish baths in Swindon.

If you think that the Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths article doesn't make it clear that it's about Turkish baths then ask the author of that article to state that they weren't intending to talk about the Amazon Rain Forest. If my article ever gets published, I will update the Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths article with a cross-reference to the Swindon Health Hydro - that would be an opportunity to enter some further clarification.

I have no business interest in the building and it seems that I am being accused of some tacky commercial promotion - is no-one allowed to care about the subject they're covering?

It's not the time it's taking to get the article printed, it's the series of unnecessary and incorrect objections, When valid objections were raised, I reacted to those and corrected my article. If the article were published that would enable others to make corrections and comments - at that point it would no longer be my article but belong to anyone with an interest in the building or its related subjects.

I'm simply trying to chronicle the history of a building of national interest. It seems that the reviewer community (whoever you people are) are determined to dig your heels in and block the article permanently. If that's the case then tell me and I'll go away and I won't trouble Wikipedia again. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 21:37, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

@Mydaemonthirst, I have started a requested move at Talk:Swindon_Victorian_Turkish_Baths to try and get some clarity for this situation. It is now apparent that Swindon Health Hydro is a complex (like a shopping centre, for want of a better comparison) that includes an historic and important Turkish baths facility. As I mentioned on your talk page, not every topic needs an article and we will see for this case.

Editors do not own articles, you don't need to ask the author of Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths about their intentions for the article and for the their permission to edit. Waiting for your article to get published (this isn’t a newspaper and I explained this concept in my previous post above - sentences 2 to 6) to sort out Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths is not ideal.

Incidentally, Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths has been incorrectly using a proper noun and starts with Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths, in Swindon, England, were initially opened... which implies (to a regular Wikipedia editor at least) it is a particular building with that name. Your draft says The Health Hydro is a Grade II* Listed Building. So it looks they are both about the same building and a commercial name change has occurred. Neither article nor draft provide a traditional first sentence (an essential part of a lead, which was requested in the last draft rejection) to explain their context. The situation may seem obvious to you, but it is not to others. Commander Keane (talk) 04:50, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia bio?

Can I submit my own bio to Wikipedia? ~2025-42070-44 (talk) 20:44, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

Hi @~2025-42070-44. We strongly discourage that: Wikipedia:Autobiography. Wikipedia has really strict criteria for inclusion, and the majority of biographic articles are written by people independent of the person with just a passing interest. We prohibit promotion of any kind, and we're not a social media website like LinkedIn. qcne (talk) 20:49, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

Hello, @~2025-42070-44. Note that A Wikipedia article should be a neutral summary of what the majority of people who are wholly unconnected with the subject have independently chosen to publish about the subject in reliable publications, (see Golden rule) and not much else. What you know (or anybody else knows) about the subject is not relevant except where it can be verified from a reliable published source. That applies just as much to an article about you as to any other article. ColinFine (talk) 20:57, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

Why would you want to submit your own bio, ~2025-42070-44? -- Hoary (talk) 00:10, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

No, you can’t do that. ~2025-42676-23 (talk) 09:57, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Hi, ~2025-42070-44! Even if creating a page about you WAS allowed, first you would have to create an account. You can do this by clicking the CREATE ACCOUNT button that should be at the top of your screen.

Helpfully,Yooniik (talk) 14:57, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

And also, you might've been better off at the teahouse with that question, since you sound new. Yooniik (talk) 15:07, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

regex not working as expected

I am trying to do a regex search for a string that causes a missing end tag for <table>. The markup is

}}|} <!-- EdwardsBot

the fix is

}}
|} <!-- EdwardsBot

The bad markup occurs on about 480 User Talk pages. The regex string should be insource:/\}\}\|\} \</, and keep on going from there, but this string returns no results, for reasons that escape me, so, to get a count of the bad markup string, I used insource:/\}\}\|\}/ -insource:/\}\}\|\}\}/, which works, but there are a few false positives, such as User talk:Patrick. Will someone please explain why the regex expression that should work returns no results. —Anomalocaris (talk) 21:24, 23 December 2025 (UTC). I removed a stray less than sign just before "insource" just now. I hope it didn't cause any confusion. —Anomalocaris (talk) 17:34, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

For help with regex, ask at WP:VPT. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:44, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

@Anomalocaris: Please always give an example when you report a perceived problem. I couldn't find any page which is supposed to match your regex, apart from this help desk post which does match it when I remove the initial < which doesn't belong. I get 479 hits in all namespaces if I replace the space wth a newline: insource:EdwardsBot insource:/\}\}\|\}\n\</. I added insource:EdwardsBot per mw:Help:CirrusSearch#Using the index first to filter results because pure regex searches are expensive. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:34, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

PrimeHunter: Here are 484 pages, nearly all of which have the offending markup, including, for example, User talk:ThinkBlue, User talk:GTBacchus, User talk:Backslash Forwardslash .... But this returns "There were no results matching the query." —Anomalocaris (talk) 17:34, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

@Anomalocaris: None of the three linked pages have the markup. They all have a newline and not a space before <!-- EdwardsBot. I already showed how to find them with search. Does your browser display a space when you edit the page? You cannot use excerpts on a search results page for exact character matching. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:11, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

PrimeHunter: I didn't do my homework before my previous response. Based on the results page of insource:/\}\}\|\}/ -insource:/\}\}\|\}\}/, but without actually clicking on any of the results, I just knew there were missing results from insource:/\}\}\|\} \</. This time I have done my homework, and now I see that your first response was entirely correct. But I am still puzzled, because Help:Searching/Regex says twice, 'Regex experts should note that \n does not mean "newline"', and also "Although character classes \n, \s, \S are not supported, you may use these workarounds:". But mw:Help:CirrusSearch says \n matches a line feed character. It would seem that Help:Searching/Regex is in need of updating, but perhaps I am missing something. I should mention that I edited mw:Help:CirrusSearch to clean up some minor issues. —Anomalocaris (talk) 01:26, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

The local page is outdated: phab:T403212. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:49, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Pppery: Thanks, I added a comment at phab:T403212 asking to update Help:Searching/Regex. —Anomalocaris (talk) 04:48, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Help with (asking for help with or documentation about) the Automatic citation tab in VisualEditor

I'm looking for guidance: Seeking help with the Automatic citation tab in VisualEditor. I've tried using it with URLs of court cases and decisions I'd like to cite, and it hasn't worked. e.g. 1, 2. (And Author ID fails with 3.) I'm wondering if it works with some of the more popular court case URLs - e.g. PACER (law), or Recap (software) or Justia or Lexis URLs, or the like, or some format of case citation. More generally, I'm also wondering where documentation of what it works with can be found, and where discussion of improving /expanding its capabilities happens.

Help:VisualEditor#Using Automatic tab doesn't point folks to where the above is happening. If anyone provides answers, I'd be happy to expand it; it could use it.

Looking at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Citoid, it doesn't seem like the place, but maybe it's in Phabricator? (Hopefully I'm understanding correctly that the Automatic citation tab in VisualEditor is based on Citoid?)

RememberOrwell (talk) 12:12, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

Anyone? RememberOrwell (talk) 11:11, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Quotation marks or italics for the title of an academic thesis?

The MoS gives quite a few examples for quotation marks and for italics for book chapters, book titles, etc., but no suggestion for the title of an academic thesis. It appears to be a borderline case, as some theses might be longer than some books, but they are not part of a larger work. Have I missed something in the MoS, or should I add an example to one of these MoS sections? Chris the speller ^yack 17:54, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

Chicago style uses quotation marks (see here). I don't know what's in other guides. TooManyFingers (talk) 18:56, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

What does {{cite thesis}} do? I usually use cite templates precisely so I don't have to know anything about any style-guide:) DMacks (talk) 19:35, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

Since we do have a style guide it's probably best to make it reasonably complete, but you're right - checking that template and telling people to do whatever it would have done is a good idea. TooManyFingers (talk) 21:22, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for your ideas and guidance. The template (cite thesis) displays titles in italics (sorry, CMOS), so I will add a note to MOS:ITALICS. Chris the speller ^yack 05:44, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

I have no attachment to Chicago style, it just happened to be easy to look up. (And if someone does use Chicago style on Wikipedia, then at least they've followed something organized and reasonable, which is a bit of a win considering what else they might have done.) But I agree with what you did. TooManyFingers (talk) 00:12, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

User:EAMamedov

Can somebody who can write Russian suggest to User:EAMamedov that he should (a) edit in English on en.wiki, and (b) best not write an autobiographical article on their user page? His other edits appear to be experimental, apart from VVER. -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 21:15, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

There may be no Russian-speaking editors reading the Help Desk. Try WP:Local Embassy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:49, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

I have contacted one of the named ambassadors. Thank you. -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 18:55, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

Which language to use for inter-language links?

The Republic of Karelia page mentions the Karelian writer Antti Timonen, for which no English page exists. There are however versions of the page on the Finnish, Karelian, and Russian wikipedias. Of the three the Russian page has the most content and the Finnish and Karelian pages are about equal in the amount they cover. I want to add an inter-language link to the original page and need to pick one of the non-english pages. I'm wondering what best practice would be as the page for the native language of the subject is not the same as the page with the most content. Should amount of content or should the native language of the subject be given priority in choices like these? I've checked some of the help and guideline pages but haven't found any relevant info, any advice is appreciated. Nialimh (talk) 14:56, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

@Nialimh: Template:Interlanguage link can link to multiple languages. I would choose links that would be useful to English speaking readers, possibly Finnish and Russian as they are both served by Google translate and similar services. TSventon (talk) 15:08, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

I agree that that makes the most sense so this is what I ended up going with, thanks! Nialimh (talk) 15:15, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

Hello, @Nialimh. I don't think there is a good answer.

With my Wikipedia purist hat on, I'd say, the one with the best (not necessarily most!) references, as an article without references is essentially worthless. ;-)

But more practically, I would choose Russian, as a random reader is more likely to be able to read Russian than Finnish or Karelian. ColinFine (talk) 15:09, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

Yep, use your editorial judgement. If you cannot decide, put one (or all three) of them in a footnote. -Arch dude (talk) 17:22, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

Nialimh, there is no need to choose among them, and no benefit in doing so that I can think of, unless perhaps (unlike me) you find the look of ⟨Antti Timonen⟩ aesthetically displeasing. -- Hoary (talk) 07:41, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Stormy Marmot

Stormy Marmot

Can someone help figure out whether this animal is real or stuffed? This (albeit in an unencyclopedic way) stated that it's actually a stuffed toy, and was removed here for being "personal commentary". Based on both Google and the marmot's website (linked in external links), it really does seem to be a stuffed marmot, but the previous version treats it as an actual animal along with some sources. Otherwise, this is mildly bemusing. Happy holidays, it's lio! | talk | work 16:05, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

It's a stuffed toy. Unfortunately I see no notability, so have AFDed. qcne (talk) 16:14, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

Extortion

Why has Wikipedia resorted to extortionary tactics to demand funds? I have donated to Wikipedia many times over the past 20 years, generally in amounts in excess of the minima recommended at those times. Now I live on a modest fixed income and cannot always afford to respond to what has become a barrage of funding requests. Just now, I was stopped from reading information on Wikipedia. I find Wikepedia's resort to strong-arming extortion for a casual user of its resources vindictive and self-defeating. I won't contribute another cent to Wikipedia as it descends into the fascist world. FredMerkle (talk) 21:21, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

How were you "stopped from reading information on Wikipedia"? AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:31, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

What happens when you turn off fundraising banners in your Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-centralnotice-banners preferences? DMacks (talk) 21:50, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

Extortion is an insane claim, based on what they're actually doing. But I agree the whole thing is annoying. TooManyFingers (talk) 00:02, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

It should also be noted that it is the WikiMedia Foundation, rather than Wikipedia, that is responsible for the fundraising banners, and that many Wikipedia contributors aren't exactly impressed by the way they imply that without immediate donations, Wikipedia servers may shut down. This is clearly not true, given the humongous pile of dosh the WMF is currently sitting on, though I wouldn't call it 'extortion'. AndyTheGrump (talk)

Not to be a counter-grump, Andy; but by global or Silicon-Valley standards, the current endowment of the Foundation is pretty darned picayune. It would have to increase by an order of magnitude to be serious cabbage. --~2025-41941-72 (talk) 07:51, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

If there were no fundraising, then the free online encyclopedia would not able to function without profits donated. ~2025-42676-23 (talk) 09:59, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

FredMerkle You can turn off the donation requests in your account preferences. You should not donate money if you cannot afford to do so- a donation is just that, a donation; you don't need to give a penny to access Wikipedia. 331dot (talk) 10:04, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Also, the main purpose of the donated funds (and also official WMF merch sales) is for maintenance of all WMF wikis in the future. There is absolutely no need to donate. You are not forced to do so, @FredMerkle. I would ask WP:VPWMF about not forcing readers to donate if logged out. Ahri Boy (talk) 03:45, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Missing Balanchine Ballet

When I was working for G. Schirmer and attended Balanchine's Ballet danced by Suzanne Ferrell - Ive's "Unanswered Question" which was truly a great ballet danced by a wonderful dancer, Suzanne Ferrell. I had been a Music Major at Smith College. It was around 1967 - 1969 which is when I was employed by G. Schirmer in their Rental and Royalty Department. It should be listed in his ballets - you can search it under Dances by Suzanne Ferrell on line. It was a dance to music called Ivesiena. Charles Ives was one of our composers with Boosey and Hawkes and subsidiary of G. Schirmer.---- C. McIlvain ~2025-42965-99 (talk) 23:52, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

If you have an exact link to something that complies with Wikipedia:Reliable sources and contains the relevant information, then it can be added. TooManyFingers (talk) 23:58, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

It's also fine if you give an exact page reference in a paper book, if the book meets that standard. TooManyFingers (talk) 23:59, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

I looked at List of ballets by George Balanchine and it includes Ivesiana, which has a movement set to The Unanswered Question. TSventon (talk) 00:11, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm sorry if my comments are not helpful. I was "blown away" by Suzanne Ferrell and her dancing of what was probably Ivesiena more than just The Unanswered Question. I was very excited by Ives' work. I understand why Balanchine thought it complicated. It is. Suzanne Ferrell, like Balanchine was extremely musical which is why she was such a great Ballerina for him. I have not seen a ballerina who had her musical expression since then. Certainly that must be why Balanchine took her back into the NYC Ballet. ~2025-42965-99 (talk) 00:34, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Your comment (about it being missing) turned out not to be true, but that's perfectly fine, it was an honest mistake and a valid topic to be asking about. TooManyFingers (talk) 00:40, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Tags of edit

Hello, I have three questions and I would appreciate for your answers.

1. When I edit Wikipedia with the computer app of wikipedia, tags displayed? if displayed, what tags are displayed for that edit, like when i write message in talk page or when I edit in article?
2. When I edit with a computer browser, is the tag displayed for that edit? And if displayed, what is the difference between the tag of editing with computer app and editing with a computer browser?
3. Are these tags the same on all wikis and is there a difference between displaying the tag related to that edit on different wikis, such as the English or Italian wiki or other wikis? ~2025-43159-58 (talk) 09:11, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Hello! You can see which tags are applied to edits on Special:Tags. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 10:20, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

I saw them but I didn't fully understand them. Please answer the 3 questions with detail I asked so that I can understand them because I don't have much knowledge about these types of things. Thank you ~2025-43159-58 (talk) 11:12, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

1. Tags can be displayed or not displayed.
2. Tags can be displayed or not displayed.
3. The tags are the same. TooManyFingers (talk) 14:07, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Thank you, can you give some example of a tags that is displayed in a computer app of wikipedia.

And give some example of a tags that is displayed in a computer browser to completely solve my question and problem. Thank you ~2025-43159-58 (talk) 14:42, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

You should try it and see. TooManyFingers (talk) 16:06, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

I don't can have this app for windows because some of problem that I have and because of that i ask that what tags displayed and please give some example of that to me with knowledge of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Tags this and explain to me, thank you ~2025-43159-58 (talk) 17:32, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Please explain what Wikipedia task you are really trying to do. "Just learning" is not useful for you.

The list of tags you mentioned is not anything you can use, so you don't need to study it, and nobody needs to explain it. If something has gone wrong about one of those tags, please say exactly what the problem is. TooManyFingers (talk) 21:09, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

.r ~2025-43159-58 (talk) 19:31, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

.l ~2025-43159-58 (talk) 15:14, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

.I ~2025-43159-58 (talk) 13:26, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Whether using a computer or a phone, one can edit using a browser (such as Firefox or Chrome). One can also edit using the "Wikipedia app" on a phone or other device running iOS or Android, I believe. But what do you mean by "the computer app of wikipedia"? -- Hoary (talk) 22:21, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Lifting TBAN

Hi, for nearly 10 years there has a TBAN in place. Where do I turn to in order for it being lifted? Catflap08 (talk) 15:33, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

@Catflap08: Assuming you're referring to this, you would need to appeal to the Arbitration Committee directly, either via email or at WP:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 15:43, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

@Jéské Couriano: This is the one. Thank you very much. Catflap08 (talk) 15:50, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

eMail problems

Hello, I just acquired a new phone and when I used the hotspot feature and attempted to log on to WP, it needed a verification number, which was sent to my eMail account., which I've been using for more than 16 years. When I attempted to log into my eMail account to retrieve the verification code there was no new mail to be found. Thought it might be a temporary problem so I tried again later, and then again the next day, and the day after, etc, to no avail. I thought it might be a problem on this end with WP, so I asked a family member to send me an eMail. Again, nothing.

Here it is some five days later, and I have not received any incoming mail. Usually I receive several a day, much of it spam, but have received nothing. I was able to log on to WP with my other existing phone without WP asking me for a verification code. After I logged on to WP., I switched back to my new phone/hotspot and was able to to continue unabated. At any rate, there is a problem with mail.com, at least as my account is concerned. I tried customer service at mail.com, but it was some mindless AI chat feature whose FAQ did not address my problem. My registered eMail account is/was on record here, since removed for repeated failures to log in here.

Is there a way I can use my new phone/hotspot without WP asking me for a verification when I log onto WP? I am using my new phone/hotspot now as I write this message..Sorry for the lengthy message. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 18:46, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

@Gwillhickers: Can you set another email address at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-personal-email? PrimeHunter (talk) 19:09, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Have never had this problem before. I would have to set up another eMail account. Will wait a day or so to see if my current eMail problem will somehow resolves itself. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 20:44, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

Are you saying your new setup can't receive email from your family either? That would mean there's a much more basic problem to solve first (i.e. haven't got email working at all). TooManyFingers (talk) 21:17, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

New setup? Not sure what you mean, but I have no new eMail account. My existing account at mail.com isn't receiving any incoming mail, which means I can't receive a verification code. WP, however, isn't asking me for any verification code when I log in here using my older phone/hotspot. So I can log in, and once I have my account here open, I switch back to my new phone/hotspot and continue with the same session I initiated with my old phone/hotspot, as I'm doing now. It's sort of a funky way to get started, but it will have to do for now until I can get a handle on the problem at mail.com. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 22:36, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

The reason I have the newer phone is the account has unlimited data. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 22:37, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

PrimeHunter, TooManyFingers — Okay, as I was hoping, the problem fixed itself, somehow. Events like that doesn't do much for my faith in computer technology. In any case, many thanks for your help. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 16:35, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

I'm glad it worked without forcing you to make a new account and all that, anyway. TooManyFingers (talk) 18:27, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Courtesy blanking

Someone remind me again how does one correctly blanks a page? I tried to do it right before but the page still asked me to blank it anyways (i can't show the page because BusterD deleted it) Trade (talk) 00:09, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

@BusterD: You wrote:

{{subst:Courtesy blanked|Unsourced attack page}}
{{db-attack}}'

{{subst:Courtesy blanked}} was the right way to courtesy blank if that's all you did but {{db-attack}} should be the only content on a page per Template:Db-g10#Usage. In your case it ironically detected there was other content on the page and then asked for that content to be blanked. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:36, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

We are temporarily limiting logged-out editing from your location error

We are temporarily limiting logged-out editing from your location error happened today anyone know why i got this error? i had to create a account to fix it Harteater (talk) 01:37, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

I am in NYC in case you need location Harteater (talk) 01:41, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

See WT:Temporary accounts#"We are temporarily limiting logged-out editing from your location". That boils down to there being a rate limit due to abuse of the temporary account system. Johnuniq (talk) 01:47, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

I see you found that page. Johnuniq (talk) 01:48, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

ISBN error on

I have used the following ISBN, exactly as it is listed in the book for The Patriot (2000 film). A space is a valid separation character. Looking it up gave me the right book, though it treats the number as a 10 digit ISBN (without the spaces). When I used the 10 digit number, i.e. without spaces, Wikipedia again claims an error. https://archive.org/details/rebelsredcoatsam0000bich/page/n5/mode/1up isbn= 0 00 715626 x

Humpster (talk) 02:41, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

See the help text linked from the error message. The answer is there.

{{ISBN|0 00 715626 x}} → ISBN 0 00 715626 x {{isbn}}: Check isbn value: invalid character (help)

{{ISBN|0 00 715626 X}} → ISBN 0 00 715626 X

—Trappist the monk (talk) 03:05, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

The help text is the first place I looked. A requirement that the final X be upper case is unexpected. It must be a peculiarity of Wikipedia since an ISBN search had no trouble with it. I just want to write, not program.

Thank you, Trappist. This query can be closed.

Humpster (talk) 07:24, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

On the page you linked, the X is in small caps, not lower case. When it occurs at the end of an ISBN the X is a roman numeral, indicating decimal 10, and roman numerals are always upper case. Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:42, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Most search features are case insensitive to be convenient but we write the check digit in articles and want to do it correctly. A lowercase x often means a placeholder variable so it would also be confusing. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:39, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

hello

please delete the file I accidentally added the wrong one here is the link to the file ru:Файл:Jskdsdfsdfdfsdfsd.jpg. Yaroslav12012 (talk) 03:43, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

@Yaroslav12012: Are you talking about something you did at the Russian Wikipedia? This is the English Wikipedia and we have no control over what happens there. You would need to ask for assistance there. Johnuniq (talk) 04:04, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Yaroslav12012, no, don't ask at ru:Wikipedia. File:Jskdsdfsdfdfsdfsd.jpg is at Wikimedia Commons (c:File:Jskdsdfsdfdfsdfsd.jpg); you'll have to ask there. Incidentally, when you next ask, an informative title may help you. -- Hoary (talk) 05:16, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

I have tagged the file at Commons, for speedy deletion. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:13, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Now deleted. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:55, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Re. Donations

every page asks for donations. Let it go. If Wikipedia goes bye, then so be it. Stop asking us for money. ~2025-43235-01 (talk) 05:05, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

We have no control over the Wikimedia Foundation's donation drive (and in fact most of us absolutely hate their disingenuousness in running it). —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 05:13, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

(A) Creating a username, noting this down somewhere so you won't forget it, logging in under the username, and setting your preferences to disable such messages is I imagine just as easy as and much less stressful than (B) taking offense at these messages and fuming about them. A log in can be good for an entire year. -- Hoary (talk) 05:21, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Nepali Puri caste

However, your information is wrong because in Assam, Nepali Puri caste people come under Chhetri and some Puri also come under Kshatriya

Thank you ~2025-43299-43 (talk) 14:52, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Hello @~2025-43299-43. Unfortunately, all pages about history, politics, ethnicity, and social groups in the region of South Asia (India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Nepal) are designated a "Contentious topic". You are therefore not permitted to make suggestions or edit these topics. qcne (talk) 14:56, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Happy Christmas to you from me

• Happy Christmas to you from me

I know the above article relating to a song is incorrectly formatted (not of my doing, I hasten to add), but am puzzling as to the correct style. Could some kind Christmas elf assist me ? Thanks. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:34, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Christmas elf here! Are you referring to the title of the page, Derek R Bullamore? It should be in title case, like Happy Christmas to You from Me (which is currently a redirect to Barry Blue). Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:52, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Yes, that's it precisely. So I will need to 'remove' the redirect and move the song page to the 'new name'. It must be the ghost of Christmas hopelessness that has hit me, plus it is a very long time since I effected such changes (if at all). A helpful nudge would be appreciated. I might be able to supply the virtual Ecclefechan tarts! - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 17:11, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

This is a routine but moderately complicated page move. I'm happy to do it for you, Derek R Bullamore, and if you ever encounter this in the future you can place a request at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests.

FYI, the complicating issue here is that the redirect page has an extensive history. If you ever want to move CapitaLIZation ExAMPle to Capitalization example, you will be able to do so yourself as long as:

1. The latter is a redirect to the former, and
2. the redirect has only one revision in it's history.

You can read more about this if interested at WP:MOVE, especially #Moving over a redirect. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:16, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks for all that information. I sort of knew that they might be a more exact page to post this query, but it is not something that I have often come across before. If you would be so kind as to effect the change, then I will have a lengthy look at the processes in the New Year, when I should be more awake. I blame the eggnog. Many thanks. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 19:49, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

It's done! Happy holidays. Elf out. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 20:09, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Kim Dae-jung

The Wikipedia article states that Kim Dae-jung was born on January 6, 1924, but the official website of the Kim Dae-jung Presidential Library and Museum ([1]) gives January 8, 1924 as his birth date and explains the origin of the discrepancy. ~2025-43338-31 (talk) 15:55, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Please raise this issue on Talk:Kim Dae-jung. 331dot (talk) 16:07, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Deletion of images

I uploaded a picture of a deceased individual using a non-free template and I get this message:

The previous revision(s) of this file are non-free and are no longer being used in articles. Therefore, they fail the Wikipedia non-free content criteria and will be deleted on January 2, 2026. The current revision will not be deleted, only the previous revision(s).

What does this mean? Is it going to delete my uploaded picture or not? Why should I care about previous revisions of this file? Thank you for your assistance. Rogermx (talk) 17:34, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Hello, @Rogermx.

If you look at File:Paul John Halinan 1.jpg, you'll see that after you uploaded it (on 23rd) DatBot came along on 25th and reduced its size, in keeping with the requirements for non-free images.

This means that the reduced copy is the one now used in the article Paul John Hallinan, so your original uploaded version is not being used in an article, and should be deleted.

There is nothing for you to worry about. ColinFine (talk) 18:00, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Colin, thank you for explaining this. The explanation provided by this bot definitely lacks clarity. Rogermx (talk) 18:25, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

I think the bot message already means exactly what ColinFine explained. Is there a simple way you think it could be made clearer? TooManyFingers (talk) 16:02, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

I forgot to say @Rogermx TooManyFingers (talk) 16:03, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

The message failed to say upfront that everything is OK and explain exactly what the bot did. This is how I would word it.

Your image file is good; you don't need to do anything. We simply resized it to meet the fair use standards. Your non-resized image file will automatically delete on January 2, 2026. Rogermx (talk) 21:46, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Gypsy Rose Blanchard

Gypsy Rose Blanchard is attempting to manipulate her own Wikipedia page with lies. Why isn't it mentioned anywhere that (redacted)? ~2025-43181-46 (talk) 19:47, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

If you have evidence that an individual is unduly influencing article content about them, please send that evidence to the address described here. Do not post claims about any individual on any page without a citation to a reliable source, I have suppressed your claims here. If you wish to further comment on that particular article, please see Talk:Gypsy Rose Blanchard. 331dot (talk) 19:52, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

arbitration

There is an article that tries to cover 2 standalone topics. I want to open an arbitration case against it for its deletion Gnosticfind (talk) 21:23, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

1. Which article are you talking about?
2. There's no need to involve arbcom in a routine deletion case. See WP:Deletion for how the deletion process works.

Athanelar (talk) 21:29, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

@Gnosticfind, welcome to Wikipedia! Arbitration is meant for intractable behavioral issues that the community can't otherwise handle. You cannot open arbitration cases against articles. If you feel an article is too broad in its coverage of the subject, you may raise this issue at the talk page of said article. If you really wish to delete the article, please see WP:AFD for instructions. Children Will Listen (🐄 talk, 🫘 contribs) 21:30, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

@Gnosticfind, does the article in question cover two subjects about which Wikipedia (a) already has two separate articles, or (b) has an article for one but not the other, or (c) has no article about either?

If (b) or (c), is there any reason (aside from lack of WP:Notability) that either or both subjects should not have articles? If not, why not look towards creating a second suitably named draft about one of them, editing the existing article and new draft to 'segregate' their content, and change (move) the existing article's title appropriately? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2025-31359-08 (talk) 21:48, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

I hear you and you sound so nice. However, I have asked before and was rejected. That is why arbitration needs to be opened. Here is the useless article:

Christianity and Islam

This nonsense article was posted by somebody with an ulterior motive.

Each is a standalone topic and has carloads of information. Additionally, the religions are very different--almost opposites.

Also, I am fine with bankrupting you until you remove it. Gnosticfind (talk) 00:47, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia has no process for deletion by arbitration. The arbitration committee does not rule on content issues. As for bankrupting Wikipedia, good luck with that. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:53, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

The article is pretty clearly focused on comparison between the two religions, and the ways they have interacted. Now, whether the title and lead do a good job of communicating that is another matter, but it is not true that the article 'tries to cover 2 standalone topics'.

Also, we already have independent articles on Christianity and Islam if that's what your complaint is.

I'm also not sure what you mean by I am fine with bankrupting you until you remove it. but this sounds like a WP:THREAT which is categorically not allowed here. Athanelar (talk) 00:53, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

An encyclopedia covers many kinds of topics, and this is one of them. Nobody is making you read any of it.

If Wikipedia followed my religious beliefs, all articles would be required to use the words "fantasy fiction" to describe every religion. That would be a ridiculous and stupid way of censoring an encyclopedia, so it's a good thing they don't do it. But your proposed way of censoring the encyclopedia is no better than mine. Encyclopedias don't follow any person's religious beliefs, and it's pointless to ask them to. Encyclopedias do respect everyone's religious beliefs, by not forcing people to read articles they aren't interested in. TooManyFingers (talk) 02:21, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

I see you cannot tell when you are being played. I am now going to write an article on Christianity and Dentistry ALSO Unitarianism and Frisbees. Its very important to be so open minded you can prove your brain has fallen out. Wikipedia is not about integrity and scholarship; Wikipedia is about feel-good verbiage Gnosticfind (talk) 03:25, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

You can write anything you like. Just not on Wikipedia, since we don't permit random contributors to abuse its facilities to construct nonsensical 'articles' to prove some sort of facile 'point'. Should you attempt to actually add such content, you will no doubt find yourself blocked per WP:NOTHERE. We can manage well enough without your input. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:52, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Regarding me having been played: which part of "your religion is fantasy fiction" did you misunderstand? TooManyFingers (talk) 04:29, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

You can write "Christianity and Dentistry" if you can find and cite WP:N-good sources that covers that subject, compare Jehovah's Witnesses and blood transfusions. I started Shakespeare and Star Trek myself. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:23, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Second sentence of that article: "Both are Abrahamic religions and monotheistic, originating in the Middle East."—so no, they are not "almost opposites". It is entirely appropriate for this project, as an encyclopedia, to have an article comparing and contrasting them.

Your dislike of the article, or of one of the two religions, is not a reason for its deletion. You are not here to build an encyclopedia, but to "right great wrongs", and as such you are wasting your own, and our, time. If you persist, your account will be blocked.

(This, then this, and also this may be related.) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:28, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

"Wikipedia wants to trick you into thinking Christianity and Islam are similar so that you'll convert to Islam" has to be the strangest WP:CABAL theory I've ever heard. Athanelar (talk) 18:01, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Meh, it's a natural part of our liberal agenda. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:07, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

I always wondered what Template:Convert was for... Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:47, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Per your links above, I also wonder if "demi-urges" is a term for people who wants something, but in a half-assed way. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:56, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Demiurges was meant, I think. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:03, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Well, both can be argued to make sense. Kinda like Christianty and Islam. Can be, I said. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:34, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

We're off topic by now, but given their new username is 'Gnosticfind' they were likely referring to, as Andy said, the Demiurge of Gnostic Christianity Athanelar (talk) 20:29, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Vorrei e non vorrei, mi trema un poco il cor, ...

-- Zerlina in Mozart's Don Giovanni, having a famous demi-urge during "Là ci darem la mano" TooManyFingers (he/him · talk) 07:02, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Error i Made on Draft 2028 in sports

Can you Fix the error i Made on 2028 FIBA Please Big Bowl Fan (talk) 22:44, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

I can't see that you have edited a page with a similar name to that. Could you link me? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:46, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Big Bowl Fan edited Draft:2028 in sports right before but I don't know which error it's about. It's crazy to claim the 2028 FIBA Under-17 Basketball World Cup is among the top-6 sports events of the year (page view comparison with two unlisted events at the same time in 2024) but that's not the type of error you request help with. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:25, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

CY Hi, I tried to fulfill this request in the revision 1329796455 at 01:12, 28 December 2025 (UTC) by fixing a wikilink to 2028 FIBA Under-17 Basketball World Cup on the Draft:2028 in sports (there was no dash in Under-17 unlike the title of the existing [for now] article so the wikilink didn't work). I never actually posted my reply to this request so I'm sorry if this confused anyone trying to help.

But @Big Bowl Fan, this whole draft you made will get deleted unless you or someone else cites reliable sources for the statements and information you put in it. Fixing any technical issue unfortunately will not matter unless this is done. – Mullafacation『talk』 15:11, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Logging in with iPhone (16 Pro)

Is it possible to be logged in automatically when using the iOS app? Jaydear (talk) 02:04, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Error I made On 2026 NCAA Division I FBS football season

Can you fix an error i made on draft 2026 NCAA Division I FBS football season about new stadiums please Big Bowl Fan (talk) 03:22, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Please be very exact - what went wrong? TooManyFingers (talk) 03:32, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

It sounds like you're trying to work much too fast on things you don't understand yet. Please go a lot slower, and if you don't understand something, don't do it. TooManyFingers (talk) 03:36, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Donation

I donate two dollars per month via direct debit, could you stop asking me to donate. Bazsxr8 (talk) 05:30, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Everyone reading this is a volunteer, we never see a cent of the money, and we're as annoyed as you are.

If you do control-F on this page (or "search in page" or whatever command you have), and look for every time the word donation comes up, you'll see some advice about how to turn it off or get rid of it. TooManyFingers (talk) 05:54, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Bazsxr You can turn off the donation requests in your account preferences. A donation is just that, a donation, don't give if you cannot afford to. 331dot (talk) 09:13, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Wiki Named in Epstein Files?

As one of the few people who have donated to Wikipedia, I was upset to come across conversations regarding wiki in the Epstein Files. Large admittance and accusations of “wiki washing.” I’m wanting to know what Wikipedia has done to prevent such things from happening, if Epstein associates’ IPs were successfully blocked or if we could still be reading misinformation regarding this case to date? Email me if needed, but I’d like an answer. Sugarplumpixi (talk) 08:55, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

It's not unknown for people with a conflict of interest to edit Wikipedia. This article says that Epstein had an associate who tried to manipulate his search engine rankings. It also claims that favourable edits were made to his Wikipedia article. This is all somewhat anecdotal so it needs to be treated with caution. There is more on this at Al Seckel, and it relates to emails exchanged around December 2010.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 09:10, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Yes I am aware it is common, just hoping IP addresses were tracked and swiftly blocked.

-

Thank you for the article, I see the article states “Subsequent investigations uncovered signs of possible paid or coordinated edits that, for example, changed the word ‘girls’ to

‘escorts’ and amplified the charitable angle, softening the tone around the allegations without fully deleting them.” Although it’s not necessarily a source I would use, I appreciate it nonetheless!

-

“Anecdotal” is not necessarily the correct term, as the information comes from government records of private conversations directly from the source of information, proven through metadata; confirmed email conversations between participants, actively creating and enacting plans of wiki-washing. Government records provided by the government, and confirmed through metadata analysis, would not be considered anecdotal, and is a primary source.

-

For all intents and purposes, I am simply hoping they have located all edits attached to Epstein and Goons’ IPs and swiftly corrected any false information they attempted to spread. Sugarplumpixi (talk) 09:45, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

See above, it's quite common for people to edit articles related to them to put them in a more-favourable light. As a website anybody can edit, Wikipedia unfortunately isn't foolproof against such conflict of interest editors, although I personally think the community is quite good at catching such editors. Over the years Wikipedia has only gotten more strict with what articles can and can't say (especially with living/recently deceased people and controversial subjects) so I don't think it's a pressing issue. If you're interested in this topic, another interesting one is the United States congressional staff edits to Wikipedia - aka, Congress staffers who edited. They even had their own unique tag, though the abolishment of IPs has rendered this obsolete. jolielover♥talk 13:29, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

@Sugarplumpixi Our in-house magazine had an article on this topic, now archived at Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2025-12-01/From the archives. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:52, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Epstein's 'associate' was full of crap. He claimed to have 'hacked' Wikipedia by replacing one photo with another - as if that was some sort of marvellous technical feat, rather than something the site is designed to facilitate. There is no doubt that Epstein engaged in a great deal of dubious 'reputation management' along with his criminal behaviour, but as far as Wikipedia goes, this doesn't seem to have involved anything particularly out of the ordinary. Undisclosed CoI editing is a serious problem on Wikipedia, but we shouldn't take the claims of those who engage in it on behalf of others it too seriously. They have a direct financial interest in bullshitting their clients. If Epstein really paid 'tens of thousands of US dollars' for reputation management, as our Seckel article suggests, it was clearly a poor investment. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:24, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Yes, if true, Epstein was the victim of a WP:SCAM. Seckel claimed to be some sort of reputation guru, but made Wikipedia edits that were routine conflict of interest. Even Epstein seems to have realized that he was being strung along, and that Seckel was more interested in acquiring large amounts of $ than anything else.[2]--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:12, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Reuse of Wikipedia text by commercial organisations

I've recently encountered the blatant, repeated and UNATTRIBUTED use of Wikipedia text in publications by a commercial organisation - a cruise line. Though this use was not for any direct commercial gain, the text was presented to passengers as if it had originated within the organisation itself, and clearly saved them from having to author the text itself, misleading the passengers into believing the organisation knew facts about the destination that they clearly didn't.

What is Wikipedia's view on this? Should I reveal the name of the organisation so that the management of Wikipedia can take the latter further, or does this fall withing legal usage terms? ~2025-43667-08 (talk) 15:58, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

If it's unattributed, the WMF might be interested, though it probably depends on how big a fish this matter is(so to speak). 331dot (talk) 16:03, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

I suggest you only reveal who it was when (and if) you end up reporting this to someone who has the power to do something concrete about it. Or if someone directly asks and has an official reason to be asking. Whoever they are, don't give them ammunition to attack you with. ("Smearing our good name, our lawyers, blah blah blah") TooManyFingers (talk) 16:08, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Unfortunately, since the copyright belongs not to WMF but to the individual editor(s) who contributed the copy, only they have recourse to legal action.

See WP:Mirrors and forks#Non-compliance process ColinFine (talk) 16:19, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Yes, you should name them. How was the text presented to passengers? Was it a website (if so, link please) an electronic display, or on paper (and if either of the latter, do you have photos)? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:18, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Change default action on redlinks

When I click a redlink, I'm usually just looking for the deletion log and very rarely want to create the page. Is there a way to make this the default action? Opening the editor sometimes takes a while, especially on mobile. lp0 on fire () 17:10, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

@Lp0 on fire: See Wikipedia:User scripts/List#User:Awesome_Aasim/noeditredlinks.js. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:28, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, that resolves it. lp0 on fire () 17:34, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Does that include an option to subsequently open the editor? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:15, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Yes, it can then be edited like a normal page. lp0 on fire () 17:16, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Great; thanks. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:38, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Log in issues

Trying to login but forgot my password. I filled out the email address to have it reset but I don’t ever receive an email to do so. ~2025-43558-71 (talk) 20:24, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Please do not include contact details in your questions. We are unable to provide answers by any off-wiki medium and this page is highly visible across the internet. The details have been removed, but if you want them to be permanently removed from the page history, please email oversight-llists.wikimedia.org. SomeoneDreaming (talk) 05:07, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

I have removed your email address--please do not post your personal information here. Someone else might have a better answer, but one thing you could do is you can create another account, and using that account, edit your old account's userpage to mention that you no longer use it. Before creating the new account, please read up on Wikipedia's username policy, to make sure your account complies. SomeoneDreaming (talk) 05:00, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

NFL background noise

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

NFL background noise ~2025-43408-56 (talk) 21:37, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Sound is terrible all I hear is background noise. Announcers should be in a sound proof room. ~2025-43408-56 (talk) 21:40, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

This is on the NFL games. ~2025-43408-56 (talk) 21:41, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

code to fetch whether a wikidata item has a certain property or not

Hello! I don't know how to code at all and I'm trying to bodge it together from what I can find on the Help: pages but I can't find out how to check whether a wikidata page has a certain property or not.

I want a line of code that goes: if QXXX has the property PXXX, then display text: property , else, do nothing.

thanks a lot! JSeke (talk) 23:12, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Summat like this?

{{#if:{{#property:P1477|from=Q42}}|{{#property:P1477|from=Q42}}|not found}} → Douglas Noël Adams

{{#if:{{#property:P1478|from=Q42}}|{{#property:P1478|from=Q42}}|not found}} → not found

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:56, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

thank you, that's so simple. I don't suppose you could also tell me a) how to get it to show the value in one specific language for things like names and separately b) how to get it to show the language code of a value in brackets afterwards

much appreciated JSeke (talk) 01:00, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Real-life example of that you want?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 01:12, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

P1705 is native name, I want to know how to get eg. Q104674 to say Ben Nevis (en), Beinn Nibheis (gd), and how to get it to say just one name; either Ben Nevis or Beinn Nibheis JSeke (talk) 01:24, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

I would have thought that this is summat that Module:WikidataIB could do. If it is, then I couldn't decipher that module's rather inscrutable documentation. So this:

{{#invoke:Sandbox/trappist the monk/wd p1705|main|<qid>|<selector>}}

where:

<qid> is wikidata Q identifier

<selector> is a digit that selects one of possibly several name/language tag pairs

examples:

{{#invoke:Sandbox/trappist the monk/wd p1705|main|Q41179}} – <selector> omitted, show all name/tag pairs as comma-separated list

មេគុង (km), ປະເທດລາວ (lo), Mê Kông (vi)

{{#invoke:Sandbox/trappist the monk/wd p1705|main|Q41179|3}}

Mê Kông (vi)

Error messages are emitted when required qid is omitted; when <qid> does not include P1705; when selector is not a digit or is out of range.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:00, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

thank you so much! JSeke (talk) 16:37, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

See also {{Wikidata}} (which does some of what you want, but not the multilingual part). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:12, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

My username is being rejected: 217.155.200.241

I LAST LOGGED INTO WIKIPEDIA ON 22 JUNE THIS YEAR 2025. Today when I am trying to login, you're telling me my username does not exist. It was always my IP address 217.155.200.241 since I created it on 25 August 2005.

Am keen not to lose my 20-year-old back-catalogue of edits. How can I retrieve it? - Thanks DLJ ~2025-43592-21 (talk) 01:48, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

We have never allowed IP addresses as usernames. (In fact, if you edited under an IP address, you never registered an account.) —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 01:59, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

... and because you never registered, we would be foolish to believe your claim that that was you. You could be anybody. TooManyFingers (talk) 03:46, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

@~2025-43592-21 If you want, you can register an account, and then write on your userpage something like "I've previously edited as User:217.155.200.241 [3]." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:09, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

What you used to use as your ID is an IP address, not a user name. IP addresses were never allowed by WP:Username Policy as a user name. They were automatically displayed along edits, but they just identify a place in the net, not a person who made the edit. Nowadays they are masked with temporary account names, but they are still forbidden as a user name. You may want to see WP:USEMODDOMAIN for some more info on current rules of treating IP addresses in context of user id. --CiaPan (talk) 09:33, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Referencing errors on Allen Jenkins

Reference help requested. Thanks. I have never come across a 'missing title error' in Wiki, but then I have not contributed much in the past ten years and this may be a new thing. I referenced only URLs. Shall I make up a descriptive title for them? All this pertains to the recent corrections to Allen Jenkins. Give me the answer and I'l plug it in, if necessary! Thanks, SallieJParker (talk) 03:12, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

You've made another mistake that's actually more important, and which you should correct first. Ancestry.com is a very weak source on Wikipedia, because anybody can edit ancestry.com, making it unreliable in a lot of ways. It's OK to keep the bare facts shown on documents that were uploaded there, but not OK to use their speculation, or to speculate on it ourselves. So please remove the speculation about name origins, OR - if possible - keep it in the article by finding other sources for it that are actually reliable. TooManyFingers (talk) 04:54, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. 1) Ancestry was NOT the news source. The good grey goose New York Times was however cited as a news source, though it merely cribbed a wire-service obit that was curt, concise & correct where wikiwisdom failed. 2) Using such secondary sources (i.e., "news sources") is recommended in such instances since most people can easily verify that a routinely vetted journalistic source was, in fact, published. It's right there, online, for what it's worth. You don't like it, go Pinch Sulzberger. (Of course you could argue the NYT and UPI and BuzzFeed and other outlets might be all in cahoots with each other, consistently lying through their teeth because they know there are few people redpilled enough to doubt them, and those few are mainly cultists and 9-11 truthers and conspiracy theremins.) 3) But as to Ancestry. So far from being a biased editorial sheet, Ancestry-dot-com is merely a site where things like Censuses and draft cards are dumped. And nobody is editing Censuses and draft cards because these are publicly available documents. If you put up a fake document of any substance it would be exposed immediately because it doesn't match the original on file, which has probably been copied and uploaded multiple times. 4) I'll grant you yours was an ace power move: a contributor on Wikipedia saying "Ancestry.com is a very weak source on Wikipedia, because anybody can edit ancestry.com, making it unreliable in a lot of ways." Kek kek, excellent irony and I appreciate your humor, amigo. Hats off to Fingers. We must all do better in the future. 5) And I surely made no speculation on documents, I simple posted 'em where needed. I have been known to make insightful speculations from time to time but they are mainly confined to those countless articles that I authored de novo and may choose not to take credit for now. SallieJParker (talk) 22:03, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

@SallieJParker, for Wikipedia's consensus about the use of ancenstry.com data, see WP:ANCESTRY. Census records are not unreliable, but they are WP:PRIMARY sources and should be used with care and only for certain types of information. For example, if I see a census record that says that "Tom Hanks" was born in Tennessee in 1852, should I go change the birth date in our Tom Hanks article? No, clearly I'm looking at a record for a different person with the same name. This is the type of problem that can arise when a Wikipedia editor performs their own interpretation of a primary source. We greatly prefer secondary sources, who presumably have done the appropriate analysis of primary sources to support their statements. And please avoid mocking and belittling other editors who are volunteering their own time to try to help you. CodeTalker (talk) 23:28, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

@SallieJParker After that, the title thing will be an easy fix. TooManyFingers (talk) 04:55, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

To fix the title problem, after |url=whatever , add this: | title=Times Machine - just use whatever they really call their page. TooManyFingers (talk) 05:12, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Sure, we can do that.SallieJParker (talk) 22:48, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Fix the correction of the Greek language that open the Olympics of Athens

I need your help to fix it in the romanizing of Greek that the President of the Hellenic Republic Constantinos Stephanopoulos declares open the Games of the XXVIII Olympiad of the modern era in Athens, Greece of Athens 2004, accompanied by the Adjutant to HE the President of the Hellenic Republic Officer Colonel Georgios Dritsakos of the Hellenic Air Force. In the List of the people who have opened the Olympic Games. ~2025-41506-13 (talk) 03:49, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Looking at List of people who have opened the Olympic Games, it seems like the article does not include the original language text, only the English translations. I'm not sure what you're asking for help with. Are you suggesting that we change the spelling from Konstantinos to Constantinos? If so, I would suggest that at his main page Konstantinos Stephanopoulos rather than in an article that only mentions him.

If that's not what you're asking about, you may need to explain it differently. SomeoneDreaming (talk) 04:57, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Sorry. Konstantinos Stephanopoulos, the President of the Hellenic Republic declared open the Olympic Games of Athens...and the celebration of the XXVIII Olympiad of the modern era in Greek. It's in the list of the people who speaks their foreign languages and English. Heads of State. Right here. ["Κηρύσσω την έναρξη των Ολυμπιακών Αγώνων της Αθήνας...και τον εορτασμό της 28ης Ολυμπιάδος της σύγχρονης εποχής."] Error: [undefined] Error: {{Lang}}: no text (help): invalid parameter: |rr= (help) - "I declare the opening of the Olympic Games of Athens...and the celebration of the XXVIII Olympiad of the modern era."

— Konstantinos Stephanopoulos, President of the Hellenic Republic ~2025-39997-74 (talk) 05:04, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed the block quotes from the article, as most of the other examples did not use block quotes or non-English text. That resolved the error you were seeing. SomeoneDreaming (talk) 05:25, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

references outside the current section

Would the reference mess up if I edit the non-reference text in Republican Party efforts to disrupt voting after the 2024 United States presidential election? In the edit's preview, the last reference says: "<ref> tag with name :59 cannot be previewed because it is defined outside the current section or not defined in this article at all." rootsmusic (talk) 04:00, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Normally, this warning is only telling you "We can't see :59 right now because we're not currently editing that section, but if you say :59 is still there in that other section, then OK, I believe you." TooManyFingers (talk) 04:21, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

So, as long as reference :59 is still where it belongs and you haven't messed with that part, you're fine. TooManyFingers (talk) 04:32, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Editing an article that's written like an essay

Hi! I'd like to improve the article Culturally relevant teaching. It's been the subject of several Wiki Education assignments and it just doesn't feel like a Wikipedia article, it feels like a school paper. But I'm struggling to figure out where to start. Does anyone have experience with rehabilitating these types of articles and have advice for how to do so? SomeoneDreaming (talk) 04:50, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

A big part of the problem there is students trying to use fancy language to cover up the fact that they're not actually saying much.

Take the words of those babbling students and cut, cut, cut. Any word that isn't actually serving to explain another thing about culturally relevant teaching, delete it. TooManyFingers (talk) 05:21, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

It's hard to give anything objective; the first thing to do would be to read the sources and see what they actually say, and eliminate any WP:OR and WP:SYNTH that has been inserted onto the sources' content; which is likely to be a lot.

Once you've cut that down, then as TMF says it's just about looking for unnecessarily fluffed prose. Cut down to the absolute basic informative level; if any detail is really needed you can always re-add it later. For instance, a couple of things I notice in the lead;

While the term culturally responsive teaching often refers specifically to instruction of African American students in the United States, it can be an effective form of pedagogy for students of all racial and ethnic backgrounds. can become The term is often, but not exclusively, used in the context of African American students in the United States or something to that effect.

is instruction that takes into account students' cultural differences. Making education culturally relevant is thought to improve academic achievement, but understandings of the construct have developed over time. can very easily be is instruction designed around the cultural differences of students with the aim of improving academic achievememt in students of minority cultures Athanelar (talk) 10:13, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Formatting query

Another editor change my talk page code so that it worked in dark mode, but to display properly it needs </div> at the bottom. Every time someone posts a message, they add it at the bottom, and hence outside the <div> to </div> zone. Is there any way to force the </div> to the bottom, or otherwise fix this irritation? Thanks Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:50, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

importing a draft

Is is possible/advisable to import a draft from Microsoft word into either of the wiki editing tools? Concordhistorian (talk) 13:15, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

There's no reason why you couldn't. Athanelar (talk) 18:19, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

@Concordhistorian Yes and no. The answer is complicated. You're welcome to write your draft content in an external text editor like Microsoft Word, but if you copy and paste that into the Wikipedia Visual Editor none of your formatting or references will properly copy over - you might end up with strange broken formatting, missing tags, errors on your references etc. This is because the Wikipedia text editor is based off Wikitext which isn't compatible with Microsoft Word. The easiest solution might be to write up your plain text prose in Word, copy it over to Wikipedia, then do all the referencing and formatting in the Visual Editor. qcne (talk) 18:28, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

super helpful--will do just that Concordhistorian (talk) 18:33, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Alternatively (which is what I thought you meant) you could make sure you type up your draft in wikitext in Word in the first place -- it's not all that hard to learn, and probably a good idea to do so anyway, the source editor is a lot faster for most things. Athanelar (talk) 18:38, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

In Word, choosing to save it as .txt instead of as a normal file can simplify this. TooManyFingers (talk) 19:50, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

"The easiest solution might be to write up your plain text prose in Word". I don't know; I haven't tried (indeed, it's years since I made even token use of Word for any purpose). But is it really easier than using a text editor? -- Hoary (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

There's even guidance and recommendations for Wikipedia/wikitext support in specific text editors at Help:Text editor support § How to set up specific editors for Wikipedia editing. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · email · global) 02:28, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

Laguna del Maule (volcano) citations

Can someone go into Laguna del Maule (volcano) and clean the citations up? I am not sure why they aren't working. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 14:56, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Several of the long-form references have |ref=none. When you do that, short-form references have nothing to link to. You might start there.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:04, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Name and citizenship corrections

 Courtesy link: Jorge Haddock Acevedo

1-My official name is Jorge Haddock. In Puerto Rico they use Jorge Haddock Acevedo. The editor does not allow me to correct it.

2-My citizenship is US, Puerto Rican citizenship does not exist. The editor does not allow the correction. GuiquiJH (talk) 16:29, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

GuiquiJH Wikipedia does not necessarily use official or legal names as article titles, please see this policy regarding article titles. Wikipedia uses the title most commonly used by sources(for example, Bill Clinton, not his legal name William Jefferson Clinton). New accounts cannot retitle articles, you need to propose a Requested Move to retitle an article, but this should not be done without a consensus that it should be.

I'm not sure what the policy on describing citizenship is. 331dot (talk) 16:33, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Kim Dae-jung's date of birth

Could anyone add their thoughts to this discussion? ~2025-43489-87 (talk) 19:06, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Hi TA editor, you (I assume it was you) asked about this previously and as advised you started a discussion on the article talk page. As no-one has responded there, I would suggest posting a link to the discussion on relevant wikiproject talk pages, e.g. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography. Also it would be useful to check whether online sources have been updated, e.g. the Nobel Peace Prize 2000 page. TSventon (talk) 19:57, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

I have pinged participants in the previous discussion of the subject. TSventon (talk) 22:45, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

unwarranted reference notification

I created a page for primate anthropologist Shirley C. Strum that was flagged for over-reliance on primary sources. I revisited the article and exchanged a number of primary references for secondary references. The notification is still there. I'd like to know if further elimination of primary references will fix the problem, or if can it be fixed internally by Wikipedia. Thank you! Cassandra Phillips aka cassaph Cassaph (talk) 20:00, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

The flag was placed manually by Snowman304 on 30 August 20205, and will not disappear automatically, only when an editor chooses to remove it.

If you are entirely confident that you have fully addressed the problem, you could be 'Bold' and remove it yourself – the worse that can happen is that someone else checks, disagrees, and 'Reverts' your removal, and you can then civilly 'Discuss' the issue with them (on the article's Talk page, or yours, or theirs) to achieve a consensus; this is perfectly okay, and part of the standard editing procedure detailed at Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle.

You may however prefer to seek, and abide by, the opinion of the editor who tagged the article in the first place.

Incidentally, you say you 'created' the article, but that appears to have been done by JohnMcCu on 24 March 2025; your current account became active on 10 April 2025 and did not edit the article until 29 August 2025, and JohnMcCu was still actively editing this and other articles up to 14 September 2025. Are you operating two separate accounts? If so, why? and if not, what is the explanation for this apparent anomaly? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2025-31359-08 (talk) 21:47, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the info! The question of authorship has to do w a person, John Mc, hired by Strum to start writing her article. His contribution was more or less a stub, which I fleshed out. You say he's edited it since? That's news to me. We're not affiliated.

I'll try to remove the notification myself and see what happens.

Glad to have your guidance.

Cassandra Cassaph (talk) 23:33, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

@Cassaph The article about Shirley Strum is also on your user page, which is not allowed. ~2025-31242-74 (talk) 02:52, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Oh jeez. My user page? Where's that? Sorry, clearly I'm not a regular here. Cassaph (talk) 04:15, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Your user page is User:Cassaph. See WP:USERPAGEDRAFT. The person icon at the top right has a "Sandbox" link you can use for drafts or tests. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:57, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

So I need to manually delete the text on my user page? And it won't affect the Strum article on Wikipedia, yes? Cassaph (talk) 06:04, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

@Cassaph Yes, that's right, it won't affect the article. ~2025-31242-74 (talk) 06:20, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Urgent BLP Correction & Article Expansion: Meisam Amini

Hello. I am requesting an experienced editor to help update the article Meisam Amini. The page is currently a Stub-class and contains a 'Retired' label that is factually incorrect and professionally damaging under BLP policy.

1. Verified International Records: The following achievements are verified by [FILA Cert](File:Meisam_Amini_FILA_International_Championship_and_Coaching_Certification.jpg):

• Silver Medalist: 2003 World Championships (74kg FS).
• Gold Medalist: 2002 Asian Championships (69kg FS).
• Silver Medalist: 2000 Asian Championships (69kg FS).
• Gold Medalist: 2002 Freidenfelds Cup (Latvia) - Verified by [2002 Diploma](File:Meisam_Amini_-_1st_place_Diploma_-_Freidenfelds_International_FILA_Tournament_2002_-_Riga.jpg) and [Results Table](File:Meisam_Amini_-_2002_Latvia_Cup_Results_Table.jpg).

2. Career Continuity (France):

• **Rhône-Alpes Title:** [Regional Title](File:Meisam_Amini_-_French_Champion_Certificate_-_Rhone_Alpes.jpg) - Verified by **Le Progrès** ([Source](https://www.leprogres.fr/sports/2010/12/05/trois-titres-pour-l-ain)).

3. Current Coaching Status (2025): Verified as an international coach by [FILA Cert](File:Meisam_Amini_FILA_International_Championship_and_Coaching_Certification.jpg), I am currently active in Lyon and for the Ivory Coast National Team:

• [2025 Invitation](File:Meisam_Amini_Ivory_Coast_National_Team_Invitation_2025.pdf): Official 2025 appointment.
• Media (2025): [Lyon Mag](https://www.lyonmag.com/article/147816/), [Le Progrès](https://www.leprogres.fr/sport/2025/06/12/), [IRNA](https://www.irna.ir/news/85831100/), and [Borna](https://www.borna.news/fa/tiny/news-1681200).

4. Name Correction: My legal name is **Meisam Amini**. The spellings "Misam" (FILA) and "Meysam" (UWW) in databases are common transliteration errors. Passport and current contracts confirm the correct spelling as **Meisam Amini**.

5. Proposed Lead Update: "Meisam Amini is an Iranian freestyle wrestling champion and international coach. He is a medalist in the World and Asian Championships. He currently serves as a coach in Lyon, France, and a technical instructor for the Ivory Coast national team."

Note: This is an urgent BLP correction regarding my professional status. Thank you. ~2025-43800-74 (talk) 21:49, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Hello @~2025-43800-74. The "stub" class is simply a categorisation of how short or long an article on Wikipedia is. It does not have any bearing on quality or your professional reputation. You have made an edit request on the Talk page, which is the correct venue - a volunteer editor will come along in due course and action it. Please be patient. qcne (talk) 21:52, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for the guidance. I have already submitted the official documents and identity verification via email to the Volunteer Response Team and received Ticket#2025123010005146. Additionally, I have provided news links and official databases in my initial request to verify my professional career and the correct spelling of my name (Meisam Amini). I will wait for the verification process to be completed. ~2025-43930-38 (talk) 14:42, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Deletion of page

how can I request a page deletion that I didnt want of me ~2025-43839-79 (talk) 01:06, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

What page are you talking about? TooManyFingers (talk) 01:13, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

@~2025-43839-79 If there is a page about you, and you don't want it to exist, you basically have to prove that you're a real unknown. If there is a fair amount of reliable material about you that the public could search for and find, and if anybody says they think the page is worth keeping, then your deletion request could be refused.

You can imagine that there are quite a few public figures who would love to be able to just cancel what's been written about them, but it's against public interest to let a person do that unless basically no one ever heard of them anyway.

More information about how to make a request is at Wikipedia:BLPREQUESTDELETE. TooManyFingers (talk) 01:57, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

"If there is a page about you, and you don't want it to exist, you basically have to prove that you're a real unknown." Really? That's news to me, and it's not what WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE seems to say. Or am I misreading the latter? -- Hoary (talk) 08:31, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

I try to put things in a way that the person I'm addressing will get the correct impression and idea. I can't really say "You have to fail GNG or else they can't delete it". But BLPREQUESTDELETE does bar them from considering deletion when someone passes GNG - right? TooManyFingers (he/him · talk) 09:06, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Realistically you are both right. Yes, the subject doesn't need to prove that they are super unknown, but also they can't request the deletion of an article if they are very notable. BLPREQUESTDELETE is really for the borderline cases. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:51, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

@~2025-43839-79 I see that you removed a person's name from a list page. If that was about someone else, then of course you shouldn't have removed it. If it was about you, then we should keep it there for now, until we know for sure whether the article about you is going to be kept or deleted. If the article itself gets deleted, then it will be right to remove the link also. TooManyFingers (talk) 02:12, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

This appears to relate to William "Hawk" Birdshead. You have removed links to that article from several others; all have rightly been restored. Please don't do that again.

If that article is about you, and you have concerns about its content, see the advice at WP:About you.

He (you) appears to be a person with a public profile. It is very unlikely that we would delete that article, just as the various websites that it cites would not delete their content about him. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:53, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Search engines referencing

Hello,

I created the article Tobacco taxation on 19 December 2025. And, unlike other recent articles, I cannot find it trough a search engine, even with targeted keywords such as 'tobacco taxation Wikipedia'.

Do you have the same issue? Is there a hidden parameter blocking its proper web indexing? Thanks for your help.

Atis Muller (talk) 09:14, 30 December 2025 (UTC).

It has not yet been reviewed by a New Pages Patroller. If that does not happen within 90 days of creation it will appear in search engines after that. See WP:INDEXING. 331dot (talk) 09:24, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

@Atis Muller The logs say it was reviewed today, perhaps as a result of your post here. In my experience, the article will need another (possibly small) edit after today to draw it to the attention of search engines. Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:19, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Using a picture that I took but no longer have access to the original file

i took pictures of landmarks of the town I'm working on and uploaded them on Google Maps. I think the town's page can benefit from having pictures of its landmarks. But I no longer have access to the original files nor the Google account I used to upload,I can only get the pictures from Google Maps. They're technically mine, so can I just grab the pictures from Google and use them for the town's wiki page? Jazgothere (talk) 09:55, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

You could do that, if you released the images to Google with a copyright that allows for their use on Wikipedia; I'd suggest asking about this at Commons. 331dot (talk) 10:27, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

I am the copyright holder, but I'm taking a copy of my own image that I've provided to someone else is a legal issue that I have no idea if it's kosher or not. Commons will know. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:52, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Is it possible for Google to require people to hand over their copyright to Google, as a condition of uploading? I think they might do that. TooManyFingers (he/him · talk) 17:58, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Google's t&C only require that uploaders license their content to Google. The uploader retains the IP rights. This isn't much different to a CC license of the sort that Wikipedia uses. Since we will assume good faith, @Jazgothere can download the pictures back from Google and re-upload them to Commons, declaring them as "own work" and giving the original date taken, which may well still be in the metadata of the files if these are .jpg with .exif information. Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:13, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

That's good to know. Thanks. TooManyFingers (he/him · talk) 19:37, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

How and how many reliable sources should be used for Wikipedia articles?

Hello! my question was: "How should I use reliable sources to add information to Wikipedia articles! That is, can I add these words to the necessary part and edit them?" Thanks in advance for your answers and help!(Iluziya7 (talk) 12:10, 30 December 2025 (UTC))

Hello, @Iluziya7. You have asked three questions that are all similar, but not the same - and the third one I don't understand at all.

Could you clarify what it is you want to know? ColinFine (talk) 13:16, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

@ColinFine. How can I use reliable sources if I add information to Wikipedia articles! (Iluziya7 (talk) 13:57, 30 December 2025 (UTC))

Anything you add to Wikipedia must be verifiable in a reliable source. See Help:Referencing for beginners for guidance. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:13, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

thanks! (Iluziya7 (talk) 14:19, 30 December 2025 (UTC))

Welcome template

 Courtesy link: User:Versions111/sandbox

Hello Wikipedians, I recently made a new welcome template for new users. Please review and improve if possible. TIA, Versions111 (talk • contribs) 12:51, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

What does this offer, above what is offered by existing welcome templates? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:28, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

It is intended as a more simpler version of the welcome templates. Versions111 (talk • contribs) 15:35, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

It is far more complicated than some of the existing templates; {{Welcome}} being one example. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:53, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

I unfortunately agree with Pigs below, your template is way too overwhelming for new users with far too many links. I don't think any new user would read it - and if they were faced with it it might even scare them off! qcne (talk) 16:00, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Also agreeing with pigs o-o it's kinda overwhelming... ///// JUMPINGISNOTACRIME 18:56, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Understood, thanks for the feedback. Versions111 (talk • contribs) 23:31, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Help with a template

I am trying to revamp "Template:Earthquakes worldwide". The template should be intended to show a colspan of 10 rows for each year. The years included in the template go from 1999 to 2026, so if I pick 2025 ("{Earthquakes worldwide|2025}"), it would display earthquake numbers for that year and previous years as far back as 2015. However, even if I pick the year 2011 or more, the year 2000 shows up first, and no matter what year I pick, it will show all the years included in the template. It's a pretty complex template, but I feel that it can definitely be fixed. Apologies if i'm poor at explaining the issue(s) I have. Quake1234 (talk) 19:33, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Could you give a real-life example of one that's obviously not doing the right thing? TooManyFingers (he/him · talk) 19:39, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Check the "List of earthquakes in 2015#Compared to other years". The template works, but 2000 is unnecessarily displayed with the others. Plus, only 10 years/colspan rows are supposed to be displayed. Keep in mind that this template is only used in the earthquake lists for 1999-2015; the others use a standard table. Quake1234 (talk) 19:42, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

@Quake1234, I edited the template, and now 2000 is not displayed if last year is 2011 or bigger. There was a typo: "0display:none", I just removed the zero. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 20:09, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. But there's still one more problem. If I pick the year 2016 or after, 2005 and later years will still be displayed. Check the List of earthquakes in 2025 article, since that's the only post-2015 year to have the template (for testing purposes until it is fixed). Quake1234 (talk) 20:15, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

@Quake1234, I think I've fixed it now, please check it. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 20:31, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

You fixed it! Thank you! Quake1234 (talk) 20:37, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Page update

Wikipedia should update Warren Fairley's page. Mr. Fairley has been indicted on numerous federal charges for numerous reasons, totaling upwards of 20 million dollars in an embezzlement scheme.

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/two-former-presidents-boilermakers-international-union-among-seven-indicted-20m-embezzlement ~2025-43943-21 (talk) 20:59, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

@~2025-43943-21: Not until he's been convicted or non-gov't sources have reported on it. We don't cite government documents as those are primary sources for all intents and purposes. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 21:03, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

Guidance requested for verifying official documents via VRT (Meisam Amini)

Hello,

I am writing to request guidance on submitting official documents via the VRT (Volunteer Response Team) to verify my career for my Wikipedia article (Meisam Amini).

I hold original FILA/UWW rankings and coaching credentials. Since the article is currently a "Stub," it is essential to expand it to accurately reflect my 23 years of dedication to this sport.

For context, my Persian Wikipedia profile (fa:میثم امینی) lists my World, Asian, and International rankings. However, the lead section and coaching info there are outdated, and I have already requested updates for consistency.

If any editor is willing to help, I propose this lead: "Meisam Amini is an Iranian freestyle wrestling champion and an international medalist in the World and Asian Championships. Currently, he is a professional international coach, serving as the coach of Lyon and a technical instructor for the Ivory Coast Wrestling Federation."

Note: Reliable news links for these titles are available on the Article's Talk Page.

UWW Verification (Note: My name is spelled "Meysam" in the database, but as per my passport, the correct spelling is "Meisam Amini"): 1. Go to: https://uww.org/database 2. Select Year: 2003 | Event: Junior World Championships (LL) (Istanbul) | Category: 74kg 3. Click on "Meysam Amini" to view the profile.

Thank you for your assistance. ~2025-44145-58 (talk) 23:14, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

The VRT has nothing to do with what you're asking.

You need to follow the procedure outlined at WP:EDITREQ if you want to request a change to an article. Athanelar (talk) 00:54, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

Can someone revert the version of a non-free image I uploaded?

I uploaded File:Fionna and Cake S2 Title logo.png with rational size. But an user "Astubudustu" uploaded another version and got reverted, the bot resized it to smaller but a different size, making my version and that "bigger" one both become invisible. Is this image possible to revert again to the original one I uploaded? Also, I hate such thing happen, a file revised by someone but against the rule - why wouldn't such non-free images be unable to revised by anyone else, other than the uploader or bot, just like how Wikimedia Commons works? - George6VI (talk) 00:29, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

The bot resized the image to be smaller because non-free images need to be below a certain resolution in order for their use to be allowed. Athanelar (talk) 00:51, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

I know, but the question is, can my version (595 × 167) be restored again, and hide the other two versions (3,837 × 1,073 and 597 × 167)? The original resolution I uploaded already followed the rule here. Now that the older versions are hidden, I can't restore it. - George6VI (talk) 01:10, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

How do i create an article

idk how to create one Jermilatio's Gameshow (talk) 04:40, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

Given your user name (which almost certainly violates the Wikipedia:Username policy) I'd say you don't. Wikipedia isn't a platform for promoting YouTube channels. Not even ones that actually attract more than a couple of dozen views. AndyTheGrump (talk) 04:49, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia donation

I can not in good conscience donate to Wikipedia any long. The far left political thoughts drive me away ~2025-44010-89 (talk) 05:10, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

Nobody is obliged to donate to Wikipedia (or more accurately, the WMF, since it is them that is responsible for collecting donations). Or to read Wikipedia for that matter. Given that plenty of people seem happy enough to do both, I'm sure we'll manage without you. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:17, 31 December 2025 (UTC)